Could the weeds in the parable of the wheat and weeds actually be non-human hybrids that look like humans?
Scriptures:
- Matthew 13:24-30
- Matthew 13:36-43
- Matthew 24:36-42
- Genesis 6: 1-5
- Job 1:6-7
- Genesis 3:15
- 1 John 3:11-12
- Genesis 4:1-2, 25
- Malachi 1:2-3
- John 8:33
- John 1:10-13
Intro
We are on a mission to understand the Kingdom of God. Right now we’re focused on Jesus’ teaching because it, in many ways, differs from what we often hear about the Kingdom. We’re looking at all of the parables of Jesus that describe the Kingdom.
Right now we are on the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Weeds). This is part 2.
Last time we tried to examine the parable without reading in any of our preconceived notions, but to accept the parable for exactly what it said. We will now look at the parable through the lens of various doctrines.
Understanding Parables
Cognitive dissonance - when faced with our truth and facts that oppose them we will try to change the facts to fit our belief
Taking the Story/Analogy Too Far
We want to make sure we aren’t reading more into the analogy than intended.
We aren’t necessarily interpreting literally
- We want to interpret as best we can how the disciples would have understood it
The analogy is generally expressed to make a few specific points.
- We don’t want to carry the analogy further than Jesus intended.
- Especially for the parables where Jesus explains the meaning.
- If he didn’t include it in the explanation we can’t extrapolate it.
Examples:
- The story of the Good Sumerian wasn’t claiming Sumerians are good and Jews are bad
- Wheat bends from the weight of the fruit when it matures
- Those who bow down to Christ are the wheat
- That’s cute but that’s not what He was saying
Just because we agree with the conclusion doesn’t mean that’s what Jesus was alluding to.
Parable of the Wheat and Tares/Weeds
Matthew 13:24-30
Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27 "The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30 'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27 "The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.
30 'Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
Matthew 13:36-43
36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
37 And He said, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man,
38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Review of the Last Discussion
Tares in the Kingdom of Heaven
In many of the parables, Jesus starts off by saying “the Kingdom of Heaven is like…” but within the parable He discusses things that aren’t part of the Kingdom. The parable may include things that are evil. These external things are used to help explain the kingdom. But that does not mean that the is evil inside of the Kingdom.
Example: Parable of the soils
- Those who had the seeds taken by birds/satan
- The birds aren’t part of the Kingdom
- Satan isn’t part of the Kingdom
- All actors in the parable don’t have to belong to the Kingdom
The Field Is Not the Church
The field is not the church. The field is the world.
Many view the wheat and tares as two different types of Christians
The field is not the Kingdom
I don’t think we need to conclude that the weeds are “in the Kingdom”
- Jesus even clarifies that the field is “the world”
- He uses things outside of the Kingdom to help explain the Kingdom
People confuse this fact and assume that both the wheat and the tares are in the Kingdom.
To inherit the Kingdom you must be born again
The weeds are not in the kingdom
- The weeds look like they are in the Kingdom but they are not
The Enemy
The enemy planted the weeds.
Why does evil exists in the world? Why do bad things happen to good people?
Because of Satan
Jesus explains that the evil in the world is not just a result of people making evil choices.
- There is an unseen forces at work which will be undescernable by most.
We learn about the Kingdom that:
- There are people pretending to be part of the kingdom that actually aren’t
- The devil is allowed to operate in opposition to the kingdom
The Rapture
In the last lesson we discussed that the parable clearly indicates that the tares are taken before the wheat. This is in direct contradiction to the doctrine of the (pre-tribulation) rapture which states that Jesus will come back and remove all “qualified” Christians from the earth and leave everyone else here. The parable of the weeds states that the children of the evil one are gathered first and destroyed.
We discussed 3 passages of scripture as they relate to the rapture:
- This parable
- Revelation 14:12-20
- Matthew 24 - one is taken from the field
Revelations describes the harvest time when angles with sickles come and harvest the grapes of the earth and crush them in the winepress of God’s wrath.
- This was a reference to the tares being destroyed at the end of the age
- The saints weren’t removed from the earth first
At that time, I stated that in Matthew 24, the story where Jesus mentions one being left in the field and one being taken supports the rapture. After a careful reading, it is clear that the passage doesn’t actually state who was taken (first).
Matthew 24:36-42
36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
- He says that it will be like the days of Noah
- It doesn't actually say who will go first
- It could be the wheat it could be the tares
From studying this passage, the parable of the weeds and the passage in Revelations that talks about the harvest being done by the angels, they all point to the same conclusion:
- The parable and revelations speak of evil being removed
- Neither talk about the saints being removed
- The “evil ones” will be removed from the earth and the righteous ones will remain
- The Gospel of the Kingdom of God states that we will reign on earth with Jesus
All 3 passages support the same conclusion:
- At the end time angels will come and remove the “evil ones” from earth
- The saints (righteous) remain
Predestination
God decided who are wheat and who are weeds and it has nothing to do with our works or our choices
- God will influence our choices to accomplish the ends he has preordained
- We only come to Jesus because God draws us to Him
- We don’t have a choice in the matter
- If God decided you are wheat you will be wheat if God decided you are a weed you will be a weed
- God will create the circumstance in your life to ensure that you end up as what he preordained
Problem:
- In the parable, Jesus clearly puts the origin of the weeds with satan
- ...not God’s sovereign will
- Jesus did not intend for weeds to be planted in the field
Are Sinners in The Church the Weeds?
The most popular interpretation of this parable assumes that the parable is talking about real Christians and fake Christians in the church. The fake Christians are the:
- The habitual sinners
- Backsliders
- Hypocrites who talk like Christians but don’t act like Christians
- Sinners who are influenced more by the world than by Christ
This view often lumps fake Christians in with non-believers
- If you don’t follow Jesus then you are following Satan
If they would just stop sinning they would no longer be be a weed/tare.
- If a weed stops sinning they will become wheat
- If a wheat falls into a sin pattern they become a weed
This assumes that a weed can become wheat and vice versa
Problem With This Interpretation
- The interpretation reads in a preconceived assumption of who is going to Heaven and who isn’t
- This is a works based salvation
- This interpretation has a non-obvious implication that wheat can become weeds and weeds can become wheat
Other Questions Discussed
- Can you be wheat one day and a tare the next day?
- When is the planting period?
- Do you become wheat or are you born wheat?
- Does sin make you a tare?
- Do your works factor in the decision of whether you’re a wheat or a tare?
Additionally:
Did God create everything evil?
- Or did He only create the good and allowed the evil to happen (against His will)
Wheat vs Tares
The parable tells us some are Children of God and some are Children of Satan
- It says that the weeds are those who commit lawlessness
- It tells us the angels can distinguish at the time of the harvest
- It doesn’t imply that the angels can tell the difference prior to that
- It doesn’t imply that they can’t
- It tells us that judgment won’t occur until the end of the age
- This contradicts with theology that bad things happen to people as punishment for sin
These are some categories of the views on who the weeds/tares are:
- Believers who sin or backslide but look like true believers
- Non-believers
- Good seeds and evil seeds were sown among other existing seeds in the world
- Counterfeit Humans
- Descendants of a specific evil human (Cain, Esau, …)
- The Pharisees / False Prophets
This parable is a key passage for many of these beliefs
Counterfeit Human Beings (Hybrids)
Nephilim
The tares are the offspring of the union of the fallen angels and human women
Matthew 24:37 said that the last days will be like the days of Noah
Genesis 6: 1-51When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God [bene Elohim] saw that the daughters of humans [daughters of Adam] were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”
4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
5The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
5The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
- This is right before the flood
- The author is careful to state that Nephilim were also around “afterwards”
Giants
“The Church” understood Nephilim to be giants until the council of the 6th century
- The book of Enoch gives a detailed account of what happened
- The epic of Gilgamesh is the oldest record in the entire world. It talks about giants before and after the flood.
- Whether or not they were actually giants doesn’t matter as far as the Tares theory goes
- They could be tears either way
- In fact if they were not giants but we’re still hybrids that would relate more directly to the parable
The suffix “im” tells us that they were a different type of being
- Cherubim, seraphim, ...
Where did the Nephilim Come from?
Fallen Angels
Sons of God = Bene ha elohim = Sons of Elohim
- These are a specific group of angelic beings
- The Septuagint translated it as angels.
Sons of God (angels) married the daughters of man
- Angels had children with human women
- God decided to kill almost all humanity because of what happened
Job 1:6-7
6Now there was a day when the sons of God [Bene ha elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”
- Satan was among them but necessarily one of them
We must remember that whatever we attribute to the sons of God we are specifically attributing it to the B’nai Ha Elohim and not to all angels.
- Satan and/or his fallen angels bred with human women and had offspring
- The giant Nephilim were their offspring
Conclusion Presented
- A specific type of angel (Sons of God) came down and mated with human women
- Their offspring were different than regular humans
- These offspring are the tares who will be here at the end of the age
- There will be (or has been) another falling away of the angels to cause this
Problems
- Satan isn’t the source of the tares here as he is in the parable
- He could have led the rebellion
DNA Manipulation (or Non-Sexual)
- The fallen angels somehow created unnatural beings without having sex with humans
- Perhaps the fallen angels taught men how to willingly become giants
- The process survived the flood because it was written on stones
Angel/Demon Possessed Men
Fallen angels and/or Satan possessed men and caused them to breed with women
Aliens
Extraterrestrials came down and bread with women and had hybrid offspring
Sethite View
- The sons of God were the godly line from Adam to Seth down to Noah
- The daughters of men were the rebellious descendants of Cain
- The Nephilim were fallen children (humans) who sought after false gods
The giants could have been there but not a result of the sons of men and daughters of God
Problems:
- The Sons of God were the ones initiating the union
- If the children of Seth were Godly why are they chasing ungodly women?
- How do humans create giants?
- ... for the version that accepts giants
- Why would God kill a whole population of righteous people in the flood
- How was sin or righteousness passed down genetically?
- It says that only Noah was righteous
- How did Cain’s descendants survive the flood?
- All humans on earth now are Sethites
Problem with All of These
- The “like in the days of Noah” reference may just mean that Jesus/judgment will come suddenly and many will be destroyed
Descendants of Cain (Serpent Seeds)
Cain was fathered by Satan
- The real sin in the garden was that Eve had sex with satan
- This family line are the tares
When the parable says the enemy crept in while man slept it is alluding to Adam literally or figuratively falling asleep and allowing Satan to have intercourse with Eve
Why wasn’t Cain’s offering accepted?
- Cain was a murderer from the beginning
Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.
- What else could “your seed” refer to?
1 John 3:11-12
11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;
12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.
12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous.
- Cain “was of” the evil one
Those who believe this theory use this to explain Jesus referring to the Pharisees as a brood of vipers, and children of the devil
Problems:
- Why would God say enmity between satan’s seed and Eve’s seed if Cain was both of their seed?
- There is more implication that Cain was the son of Adam than Abel
- The one that sowed the good Seed in the parable is Jesus ... Not Adam
- There wouldn’t be two lines after the flood
- Unless you assume one of the wives was a serpent descendant
Esau’s Offspring
The children of- Esau (vs Jacob)
- Ishmael (vs Isaac)
Esau intermarried with Nephilim
Malachi 1:2-3
2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have You loved us?” “Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob; 3 but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.”
- God hated Esau because he disobeyed and married a Nephilim (or became one)
- Esau was a tare
Pharisees Were Descendents of Esau
John 8:33
They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free '?"
- The Pharisees said they were never in bondage
- How could they be Jews but never have been in bondage to anyone?
- Which children of Abraham were not in bondage in Egypt
Book: Who Is Esau-Edom?
Who Is Esau-Edom?
by Charles A. Weisman
by Charles A. Weisman
“This book traces the life & destiny of Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, to the present day, and their connection with modern Jewry. The analysis of the history and Scriptural insight of Esau and the Edomites, will unveil and explain many of the problems in the world. It will offer a new perspective on wars, economic crisis, hate crimes, political conspiracies, Zionism, anti-Semitism, anti-Christianity, government corruption and the Jewish issue. “
The book was starting at $5,000 on Amazon
- Now there’s one for $500
Someone is trying to take this book out of circulation
Spiritual Offspring of God
Some of these explanations support Jesus’ use of the term “children of the evil one” better than the standard interpretations. If people were literally children of satan or some of his fallen angels then that could make sense of Jesus’ use of the term. The interesting thing though is that none of these theories try to support a literal “children of God” interpretation. The wheat are children of the Kingdom. We know that that is a figurative term that Jesus uses to refer to His followers. Therefore it would make sense that the term “children of the devil” is figurative language as well.
So where as it may be difficult to determine who is a weed, it may be simpler to determine who is wheat. Who is a child of the Kingdom? Who is a child of God?
John 1:10-13
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
- Jesus gives us the power to be Sons of God
- Prior to Jesus man could not achieve that on their own
- Jesus came to His own, but they didn’t receive Him
- This implies that not everyone who becomes a child of God is His own
- But whoever receives Him can be a child of God
- Anyone who received Jesus as the Messiah can be a child of God
We have the right to be children of God
- Prior to exercising that right, we were children of Adam
Praise God for being wheat
Instructor: Michael Leadon
References
The Wheat and Tares Parable 1
Warren Wiersbe
Wheat and Tares Pt 1
Chaplain Bob Walker - The Light of the World Ministry
Tares versus wheat: opposing "spiritual “ offspring
Pastor Ben Heath
Grace Church - podcast
Extra
Misused Scriptures
2 Peter 3:8
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
The disciples still didn’t get it
Acts 1:4-7
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Judgment
Jesus teaches about Satan and about judgment
The reason we don't like to talk about judgment is because we're not sure whether we are a wheat or tare. We are not sure whether we are sheep or a goat. We say we believe Paul when he says all we need to do is believe but we have doubt where we read the words of Jesus.
Luke 3:15 – 17
5 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
- Fire is symbolic of judgment
- The threshing floor is symbolic of judgment
Church History of Weed Removal
The Roman Catholic Church
In the Spanish inquisition alone 32,000 Christians were killed
The Spanish Inquisition
The crusades
- God did not call the church to judge the world
When the church went on witch hunts and started killing witches this is an example of the servants trying to eliminate the tares from the field. Spanish inquisition, crusades and bloody Mary showed what happens when we try to eliminate tares on our own (or what happens when the tares take control of the church).
Jesus’ Teaching About Sinner in the Church
This interpretation assumes that Jesus is saying that we shouldn’t try to figure out
Matthew 18:15-17
15“If your brother or sisterb sins,c go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’d 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
- This shows that Jesus doesn’t say to ignore sinners until the end of the age
- This shows that Jesus could say church
Satan is a Counterfeiter
Galatians 1:6-8
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
The most dangerous thing you can be is empty
- Example of man when the demon left and came back with more
Children of the enemy are counterfeits
2 Corinthians 11:4;11-15
4 For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.
…
…
11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting.
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
Fallen Angels
Jude 1:6-7
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
- These fallen angels are being held in bondage
- They are not on the earth
- They are not demons
Sethite View
Genesis 4:1-2, 25 1 Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."
2 Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
2 Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
...
25 Adam had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, for, she said, "God has appointed me another offspring in place of Abel, for Cain killed him."
- Cain is called a man
- Seth was called a son
This doctrine is needed to prove the 8th Day Adam theory and is usually grouped with the following theories:
- Literal serpent Seed
- Regional flood of Noah
- 3 World Ages
- Gap theory
- Pre-Adamites (destroyed between Gen 1 & 2)
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